tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post126330950916688279..comments2024-03-28T03:21:07.831-04:00Comments on DISCOURSE AND DRAGONS: Hey Schindehette, Does This Look System Neutral to You?Kiltedyaksmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03462341093016199620noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-16980928614523748892012-03-08T20:48:12.216-05:002012-03-08T20:48:12.216-05:00The problem for me is that this art in no way make...The problem for me is that this art in no way makes me think of the Realms. That's just my opinion but you think that they would try to at least tie the art to the setting. Show something that at least hints that this confrontation between man and radioactive troll is taking place in Faerun. as it stands its sort of just a bland generic fantasy picture that looks like it could have been Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-14370977788574033612012-03-04T15:31:50.706-05:002012-03-04T15:31:50.706-05:00This looks very strongly like late third edition t...This looks very strongly like late third edition to my eyes.<br /><br />It isn't basic. It isn't 1st. It isn't 2nd. That is crystal clear. Therefore it is not edition neutral.Greg Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08934958487613782595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-72630356925519898812012-03-01T13:54:54.272-05:002012-03-01T13:54:54.272-05:00To answer the question posed in the title of the p...To answer the question posed in the title of the post, yes, this piece looks system-neutral to me. The artwork doesn't immediately bring to mind one specific edition of D&D. It doesn't look like 3E, it doesn't look like 1E. So yes, it's system-neutral.<br /><br />From the discussion here of the way the troll looks, apparently to some 'neutral' means 'just like Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-73681967420314721812012-02-29T00:49:23.113-05:002012-02-29T00:49:23.113-05:00Wait. I re-read Yaksman's comment and now I...Wait. I re-read Yaksman's comment and now I'm pretty sure we're in agreement. D&D is one game played many ways. It has nothing to do with a lack of vision by the designers--D&D is incoherent, design-wise!<br /><br />Lucky for us, that's a feature, not a bug.<br /><br />Me and Yaksman will have to agree to disagree about the ruthless capitalist imperative that leads people cr0mhttp://redvan.wikidot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-89875399105420700292012-02-29T00:45:40.275-05:002012-02-29T00:45:40.275-05:00I think you guys are misunderstanding me. I'm ...I think you guys are misunderstanding me. I'm not talking about the differences between editions. I'm talking about the differences between play style within editions--or more accurately, irrespective of editions.<br /><br />Forget about catering to the Old School vs the New School. How do you cater to the guys who play story-heavy 2nd Edition Forgotten Realms vs the guys at Red Box cr0mhttp://redvan.wikidot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-20900887975594146892012-02-28T22:19:29.882-05:002012-02-28T22:19:29.882-05:00The hobby is split between two generations, and th...The hobby is split between two generations, and they aren't going to merge, not in play style, not in art preference, not in anything. Call it pre UA and Post 3.0, and I don't think either side is remotely interested in the other. <br /><br />Wizards should simply make new rules for the 3.5 crowd, and reprint (as accurately as possible) the original books. <br /><br />Z.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-59950544207506902032012-02-28T15:31:24.016-05:002012-02-28T15:31:24.016-05:00EXACTLY!EXACTLY!Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12322277079412587741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-28451308471515316442012-02-28T15:22:38.936-05:002012-02-28T15:22:38.936-05:00I disagree Cr0m, one game played many ways. That&#...I disagree Cr0m, one game played many ways. That's what D&D is. D&D only became many games played many ways over money. First Gygax to keep Arneson from royalties, then 2nd, and the WotC with third, and so on. They hide behind the discourse of "it's an evolving game" but that is corporate speak for we need to sell more books because Q4 wasn't profitable enough.Greg Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08934958487613782595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-5224629448822057372012-02-28T12:19:47.763-05:002012-02-28T12:19:47.763-05:00"D&D should be one system, not many, and ..."D&D should be one system, not many, and the fact that it is impossible to reconcile the various editions speaks to the lack of vision or understanding of the game by those at its helm."<br /><br />I don't agree at all with this statement.<br /><br />D&D's main strength, and the reason it has had so much longevity, is precisely because it can be drifted to play a wide cr0mhttp://redvan.wikidot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-68112903093197728732012-02-28T10:13:44.382-05:002012-02-28T10:13:44.382-05:00Zhu - spot on brother.
Greg - I agree insofar as ...Zhu - spot on brother.<br /><br />Greg - I agree insofar as the cover MUST reflect the content of the book. There's just no question there at all. Even D or E stand or signify the Realms to my mind.Kiltedyaksmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03462341093016199620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-58494370589259101672012-02-27T22:56:21.764-05:002012-02-27T22:56:21.764-05:00At least it doesn't have fucking Drizzt on the...At least it doesn't have fucking Drizzt on the damn cover. That's a plus in it's favor. Frankly, I would have done a different cover. A pic of ol' Elminster standing next to a table displaying a map of the Realms. Make the art reflect the title of the book.Greg Johnstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11309648175626829683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-4194840722094248962012-02-27T17:24:24.169-05:002012-02-27T17:24:24.169-05:00Action! Combat! Heroes! Villains! AC vs HP!
In no...Action! Combat! Heroes! Villains! AC vs HP!<br /><br />In no way is this art marketing a world or a setting to me. It's not communicating a proposition of exploring a country or cultures, of strange alien vistas. In fact there is no sense of <i>place</i> at all, just some random old tree. <br /><br />If the art were for a combat section of rulebook, fair enough - the game is about OTT zhu bajieehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08004498036257289234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-68668548854608808042012-02-26T19:09:42.509-05:002012-02-26T19:09:42.509-05:00This is what outsourced, marketing-oriented art lo...This is what outsourced, marketing-oriented art looks like. Boring, bland, and by-the-numbers (which were no doubt provided by WotC "brander").Melhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06551480034601737297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-82184505355252950922012-02-26T16:29:38.294-05:002012-02-26T16:29:38.294-05:00@Matthew; I could care less if the art is new scho...@Matthew; I could care less if the art is new school or old school or tailored for me. The problem with the art is that it is generic, highly derivitive of "other" products and basically mediocre. There is no implied narrative as Aaron suggested above, the emotion and feeling are lacking. Newer DnD art strikes me as being the Thomas Kincade of fantasy art. I know that may sound a bit Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12322277079412587741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-5997722826642602332012-02-26T16:29:21.011-05:002012-02-26T16:29:21.011-05:00Dienekes, I've long advocated multiple lines o...Dienekes, I've long advocated multiple lines of D&D rather than the one-D&D-to-rule-them-all model. I will buy the core books, I'd like to play-test it, but my expectations are low at this point.<br /><br />Matthew, with regard to your comment I think you should look in the mirror.Greg Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08934958487613782595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-13579254498886254622012-02-26T15:48:36.899-05:002012-02-26T15:48:36.899-05:00Don't give up James! Sometimes the only way to...Don't give up James! Sometimes the only way to take down a Dragon is one hit point at a time. Lol.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12322277079412587741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-58177028058740034152012-02-26T15:46:45.858-05:002012-02-26T15:46:45.858-05:00I may be getting a little off topic here but I don...I may be getting a little off topic here but I don't understand why WotC doesn't release a separate product line aimed at old school gamers, like DnD Classic or something similar. I guess I'm not a marketing major but to me this seems like a great way to make a larger segment of their customers happy.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12322277079412587741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-5229407623628708962012-02-26T15:41:34.427-05:002012-02-26T15:41:34.427-05:00Thoughts? I think there's way too much "...Thoughts? I think there's way too much "This wasn't tailored to fit me therefore it's crap" going on.Matthewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-18734359853897162952012-02-26T15:29:01.121-05:002012-02-26T15:29:01.121-05:00Is it just my imagination, or is there nothing par...Is it just my imagination, or is there nothing particularly Faerun-y about that cover art anyway?Erik Jensenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16232284705834559450noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-64442064578076941032012-02-26T14:14:55.463-05:002012-02-26T14:14:55.463-05:00I saw that cover the other day and my heart sank. ...I saw that cover the other day and my heart sank. I'd had high hopes that the guys over at WotC might finally be getting it and then I saw this. Oh well.<br /><br />(And, yes, as Sean so rightly says above, it <i>is</i> sad and pathetic that we're talking about "system-neutral" <i>D&D</i> products. I was going to write a post on this very topic the other day and then decidedJames Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-73790556898296962112012-02-26T14:02:39.335-05:002012-02-26T14:02:39.335-05:00The sad thing is that this could have been a old s...The sad thing is that this could have been a old school composition. Instead of having the ranger springing at the Troll, have the Ranger in the tree, weapons ready. Then, you could imagine what happens next: does the Troll notice the ranger and attack? Does the Ranger spring from hiding? Does the Troll pass by and nothing happens? <br /><br />That's what I loved about old school art. Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-86083623820678248562012-02-26T13:56:25.701-05:002012-02-26T13:56:25.701-05:00WotC seems more interested in copying World of War...WotC seems more interested in copying World of Warcraft's style than doing anything original. I wish they would put effort into a new coherent style for themselves. Failing that I would like to see them emulate the old school stuff, there are a LOT of great artists out there doing this. I don't want comic book cover art. There are comic books for that.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12322277079412587741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-43207675594412051272012-02-26T12:41:35.455-05:002012-02-26T12:41:35.455-05:00Well said - the both of you!Well said - the both of you!Kiltedyaksmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03462341093016199620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-15258096906963883142012-02-26T12:38:25.431-05:002012-02-26T12:38:25.431-05:00I don't think that it is even possible to crea...I don't think that it is even possible to create a visual style that reflects system neutrality where D&D is concerned. Each edition has had its own distinctive aesthetic and I don't see how anyone can create an artistic vision that could include all of them.<br /><br />Mind you, I don't think it is possible to create a rules system that is compatible with all editions, either. Sean Robsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16429301144221551751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4737025559858978163.post-44916357226868649692012-02-26T12:38:16.007-05:002012-02-26T12:38:16.007-05:00I love it! It's like, what would happen if a ...I love it! It's like, what would happen if a Gamma Bomb went off near Dagger Dale and all the monsters got irradiated and angry. That's a Gamma Troll! Troll smash puny human.<br /><br />Wait a second, a picture is starting to form in my mind - the Realms got nuked a little while back by a Spell Plague, I'm thinking the post-nuke realms involves Gamma Irradiated versions of normal Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18031181424520125213noreply@blogger.com