Saturday, March 17, 2012

Fuck Enworld

You know what's interesting about shopping malls?

Shopping malls are interesting because they present the illusion of public space. They appear friendly and welcoming. Family activities take place there. But if you decide to hang out in one for any length of time, or if you look or act like riff-raff (in their definition) eventually you'll get asked to leave because "this is private property."

Much the same can be said of the forum En***ld. It gives the appearance of public space devoted to the hegemony of 4e - until you say something that the omnipotent moderators deem trolling.

I've spent part of my late afternoon and early evening emailing with one such touchy moderator who didn't like my tone when I called 4e what it is: a dead system. It's as dead a system as OD&D, or Basic, or 2E, or whathaveyou. I define a dead system as one not currently supported by its property owners. With 5e, the death-knell has been sounded on 4e - it's worse than that, it's dead Jim.

This, I maintain, isn't trolling, this is a statement of the current reality. Whether or not people like it is moot. The only difference is context, I acknowledged it long ago, and the people who foolishly spent their money on that 4e shite aren't ready to let go. That's the only difference.

Remember too, I'm an academic. In my professional context all voices are to be heard. It doesn't mean people will agree with you, and that's totally fine. But you can speak your mind and be heard. There is no marginalization of minority opinions - be they of women, or people of colour, or people who hold an outrageous opinion held by few. So this situation really pisses me off to no end - but having said that I'm not going to get overly mad, I'm just going to vote with my blog and my feet.

So, as a result of the ass-clowns at En***ld, I heretofore submit the following:

1. If all voices can't be heard, I refuse to participate in discussion there.
2. I won't link to that site again.

They've gotten what they want, all I'm left with is civil disobedience.

44 comments:

  1. maybe it could be called an "undead system", as all of the other dead systems are still walking around at this point ;)

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  2. They don't even have a retroclone. They're screwed.

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    1. Yeah, I haven't studied the 4E GSL, but it will be interesting to see if it can be cloned.

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  3. Neo Grognards are the angriest Grognards.

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  4. It's funny, because I just caught the other side of the story via Piratecat's and Morris's twitter feed. Read their feed, read your blog, and it's pretty obvious they're talking about you. When Morris made a mocking reply, I thought it was in bad taste.

    Here are the tweets in question:

    @KevinKulp A messageboard member just quit in a huff after being asked not to be rude. Trying to figure out why that's so tough.

    @KevinKulp Crying "censorship" when you're told not to be a jerk seems like a overreaction. But maybe that's just me. #cranky

    @Morrus @KevinKulp It's "TEH TROOF!". Remember?

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  5. Links for verification:

    https://twitter.com/#!/KevinKulp/status/181174583506898945

    https://twitter.com/#!/KevinKulp/status/181175033018859520

    https://twitter.com/#!/Morrus/status/181175650743357441

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  6. Your discussion was made possible by the announcement of 5E. Therefore, I submit to you the wise words of Monte Cook: "The days of edition wars and divided factions among D&D fans are over."

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    1. Ha! A very similar statement at a very similar point in history is the precise thing that turned me into an old schooler.

      I was getting back into the game just as 4e was dropping so I was checking out some of the preview articles.

      They said: "The days of wizards with 1d4 hit point are over."
      And I thought: "The HELL THEY ARE!"

      And that's how they lost me as a customer.

      They obviously have less control over D&D and it's days than they think they do.

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    2. I agree with your sentiment, but would argue they do have control over their train. Unfortunately they have Mike and Monte at the throttle, hence the beautiful wreck they always find themselves in.

      It's really hard to look away!

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    3. I agree, it is hard to not engage in a major gawker slowdown when it comes to WotC. I have to start putting the blinders on.

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    4. ...or stop taking them off occasionally. Haha!

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  7. Oh good, Monte Cook says we can stop fighting everyone, let's celebrate by having a big circle jerk.

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  8. I just checked out their forums. Why isn't 4E listed under D&D Legacy Discussion? /snark

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    Replies
    1. Nooo, don't say that, they might actually move it there (not that the Legacy forum is particularly useful as it is...).

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  9. I say "Good Riddance". Enworld stopped being relevant long ago.

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  10. Yeah, I know Charlie. I suppose I was holding out hope. I'm a silly bugger for thinking otherwise.

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  11. oh no you're gonna blow barrowmaze's chance at the ENnies!! THE ENNIES!!!!

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  12. Actually I would like to win an Ennie.

    But Boards are free speech like a "free puppy" is free. Sure you have it, but there is still a catch. That is why we have blogs.

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  13. It seems idiots are not only on Dragonsfoot, then.

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  14. I can see your opinion is not biased at all, no no.
    I don't think you can call a system dead simply because the property owners no longer support it, especially when there are plenty of people who do. Not to mention the large community...

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    Replies
    1. Of course it is, I never claimed otherwise.

      Do you think they are devoid of bias?

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  15. Unfortunately a thing ain't dead just because you want it to be. Despite what you claim, 4e D&D is still very much supported by WoTC and will continue to be so for as long as D&D Insider keeps churning out articles and adventures. Not that I'm a fan of D&D Insider - imho it did more harm than good to the hobby as a whole. Ringfencing /any/ part of a website is a bad idea when it's your main means of advertising and promotion. But that's a whole different issue. 4e D&D is alive and well in the eyes of Wizards of The Coast.

    I guess it all depends on your definition of "Dead System". All editions of D&D from 0e to 4e are very much alive and enjoyed by players the world over, and I'd put Fourth Edition in the top three (probably first, despite claims to the contrary) most widely played of the lot. So if it's not dead in WoTC's eyes, and not dead in countless player's eyes, how dead can it be?

    Let's just say that it's "not quite as dead as all the other editions yet". :D

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    1. We disagree on definitions, that's all :)

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  16. I think what really set it apart from a discussion and pushed it into rude territory was the line "Dude, Are you serious?!"

    Whenever someone make it personal like that the mods will step in to keep a discussion from going off the deep end.

    Take a deep breath and give it a little time. After reading the thread in question I think both sides need a timeout.

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  17. 4e is dead - it's a dead system walking. We can "yeah, but" all we want and it won't matter.

    Yes you are allowed to ask people if they are serious or not. There's nothing wrong with that, esp. if you aren't talking to someone face to face.

    It's interesting that my first post was in response to a long-time enworld poster who was making outlandish comments. Did any of the moderators call that person out? Hell no. All those clowns have the other's back - and you can't call them out for doing so or, guess what? They toss you out! What a bunch of punks.

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  18. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGFXGwHsD_A

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  19. Well, this is the first time I've thought of Enworld in 6 mos. at least, so I'd say you've got better things to do with your time anyway.

    More posts, for example :)
    ~V~

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  20. In terms of 4e being a dead system... first, there is the D&D site which has Dungeon and Dragon on a monthly basis. I'm no huge fan of it as I too have been ban hammered once but it is monthly official support. This doesn't count the weekly encounters or the other set of adventurers that WoTC set up for challenging players nor does it count support like the recently published Heroes of Elemental Chaos. I can see where you're coming from in that "it will be dead" but as Lestat said, "There's still some life in the old girl." Now if in your opinion monthly digital magazines, hardcovers, adventure support for variosu formats at the retailer level, etc... makes a system dead, well then yes, we do have different opinions on what a dead system is.

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  21. As Joe noted the Monty Python reference is apt, in this case.

    It is a dead system walking. The bell has tolled.

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  22. I wouldn't call 4e dead, but it is on its last breaths. With the cancellation of products and a smaller number being put out, it's obvious their major focus is on 5e. So, while it might not be "dead" yes, but its getting there.

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  23. why do you write Fuck Enworld in the title of the post and then censor the name in the article?
    As for your article itself: why should it be just the rights owner who decides when a game is dead or not? As much as I dislike 4th ed., as long as there are people writing articles it will be alive.

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  24. As someone who likes 4th edition and doesn’t really like the art of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons 2nd and lower, I have to say you have been treated unfairly.
    You should have provided a link because it took me a while to find the forum. Thank god for Google advance search. Reading the post I found that you were not trolling or edition warring.
    But when next we meet, we meet as enemies.

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  25. Hey Fat Hero, I will not provide a link or mention that place again. That's simply my response to, what I feel, was unfair treatment. It's a conspiracy of silence among the moderators there.

    I have more to say but frankly they aren't worth it.

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  26. Not to derail, but this topic seems the perfect time to ask which message boards are worth joining. Obviously, the focus would be on rpgs, with sections for both current and old school flavors.

    Z.

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  27. I like rpg.net

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  28. I like odd74.proboards.com but I usually just hang out on the Fight On! board.

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  29. I haven't read the thread at ENW, but it's funny that you're being pilloried for calling a system dead, when your entire thing is love for a "dead" system.

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  30. Have you noticed how things have gotten, so that those who uncover the crap that's happening are pilloried, while those whose crap is uncovered end up walking off into the sunset smoking a cigar?

    I'm sure that Morrus & Crew have said lots of nice things about me, too, after I decided that punishing those pointed out their crap was better than, I don't know, maybe apologizing for it. I've saved the email exchanges I've had with ENW moderators as a result, as well as all of the blog posts that were later pulled by their posters.

    Basically, ENW was great (IMHO) until Morrus decided to make his living off of it. Then, for some reason, he stopped treating it like a business (which he really had done, AFAICT, before) and started treating it like a private fief.

    I don't know why that happened. I wish it had not. I used to love hanging out there.

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